removing closed cell spray foam

Labor involves setting up materials, preparing the job site, removing any trash, and cleaning up when the project is over. You have 2 options. Just giving this discussion a bump in hopes others will chime in. Never use heat to remove foam insulation. Thank you again. I don't know if it just took that long to fully cure or what, but I definitely don't have the smell anymore. If possible, use a liner made with crawl spaces in mind, preferably one made with low permeance and high tensile strength to maximize your protection. A basic model like the one shown here costs about $30. While spray foam expands to fill in gaps, there may be times when you accidentally apply too much. That's way too high. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2023 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. So I've thought about what I would need to feel comfortable proceeding with spray foam in my own house, and what I'd need is a contract that clearly specified that the remedy would be for the contractor (or their insurance) to buy my house at fair market value and pay for my moving costs. Use hot water to wash any residue left behind to ensure complete removal. What R-value for crawl space floor insulation? Unless the homeowner really wants insulation in the sub-floor, I would leave it out to make a visual inspection easier and avoid water problems from festering in the future. New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. Begin by treating any mold growth as needed with a mold removal solution (rolling it on instead of spraying it avoids spreading spores). Temperature, dew point, and relative humidity near the floor of a spray foam insulated attic. In contrast, the humidity near the ridge in the attic gets very high. But don't look for some guy who advertises on TV. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. - yes, it soaks in. 2. There should be a stud where your plate is cut. And because its so hidden, many homeowners will only pick up the phone when things have gotten so bad that its effects have started to impact other parts of the home. Never use heat to remove foam insulation. It only takes a minute to sign up. Then they can try whatever they want to remediate it without affecting you or your family. Then add another layer to finish the job. Wait for 2-3 days (more is better) for the system to "air things out" This will be especially important if the crawl space is meant to be used as storage space. Both subfloor treatments provide an airtight, insulating vapor barrier system that prevents moisture problems in summer and winter, Reichel said. Bad installations tend to be due to inexperienced crews, which would make me question the ability of that contractor to do a proper installation over previous bad installations. (Tenured faculty). Air quality test (TO-15) samples indicated lower tVOCs but higher 1,4 Dioxane than last time and the presence of 1,2 Dichloropropane which was not previously detected. Disposable vinyl or nitrile gloves are a good choice. I think you are spot on. That helped, but the smell would come back when it go humid; it was just a bit less every time, evaluated by the fact that at first the smell was easily detectable further from the sprayed area, and as time went on, detectable only closer to the sprayed area. Wear a ventilator, safety goggles, and coveralls if youre installing it yourself. You may need to allow time for the wood components to dry (a wood moisture meter will allow you to monitor the progress) or bring in a dehumidifier to speed up the process. I'm going to let the house air out today since it is going to be a little warmer. Unfortunately, these products don't have any effect on cured foam. If the foam has cured, scrape it off with a stiff-bristled brush or any other rough brush. How to Address Improperly Installed Spray Foam. With no open path through its cell structure, closed-cell SPFI can retard moisture-vapor . There isn't any need for HEPA filtration here if you run crossflow with outside air as I described, so they can use the same blower box without a filter in it. Unfortunately, we had to pay for remediation and are out a few hundred thousand so far. The usual way to do this is to run negative pressure in the problem area, with the blower exhausting to the outdoors through a nearby window or door. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. I myself have never seen a bad spray foam installation, but such problems most certainly can and do happen on ocassion. Mice can and will chew right through the regular expanding foam, but there are formulas that stop insects and rodents. Closed cell spray polyurethane foam (SPF) is a low expanding, spray-applied plastic that forms an air seal wherever it is installed and is known to have a high R-Value. I don't really want them setting up fans or at all really. How to insulate sloped top of concrete block foundation? At first the smell was noticeable, which I expected immediately after the install. It's really not that difficult to do, you just want air to MOVE THROUGH the problem area, so that there is a constant flow of fresh air from outdoors moving through the problem area to carry away any contaminants. It provides almost double the R-value per inch. Rot that extends to the subfloor above the joists is conceivable but unlikely, and chances are youll find repairs will be limited to the sill plate, band board, and floor joists. The remediation itself will likely be similar to what is done for mold, which is a physical removal of the problematic material (typically manually, and then sand or media blasting to get the last of it). It is difficult to hear such terrible stories of families being displaced by poor SPF installations. Try to avoid penetrating supplemental wiring through foam. Truly uncharted territory from my vantage point. Let the foam set up until it's stiff and carve off any excess around the shower arm. Closed-cell foam insulation is the denser and more common of the two types of polyurethane spray foams. Unfortunately, Im not sure there really is one. Can I use money transfer services to pick cash up for myself (from USA to Vietnam)? I wouldn't let them set things up in a recirculating setup (filter only with no outside air venting), since that is unlikely to do anything in your situation. This will be done with sealing off any of the living spaces below as best as possible and running ventilation (hopefully with filtration for any dust particles). It's black, so it disappears in the shadows. Had the air retested after ripping out open cell and encapsulating with closed cell. Thank you and any other advice is great. If you wait too long, there is only one way to remove it, a whole lot of scrubbing. If this is your first time removing spray foam insulation, it may not necessarily work out smoothly, so be prepared to call for help. Treat it as such. 2 inch average thickness of approximately 2 pounds per cubic foot closed cell sprayed polyurethane foam below the subfloor (Figure 4b). The environmental services company that did the testing proposed some lawyers. Hey. This is especially true when dealing with crawl spaces, where the finished product is hidden from the light of day. I would like to hear from anyone else impacted by this. Shim the rigid foam in place with little chunks of foam. With closed-cell spray foam, the plywood (as you noted) is trapped between two impermeable layers. Closed-cell spray foam costs $1.25 to $1.50 per square foot, while open-cell spray foam runs closer to $1.50 per square foot. I stuck my head in a collar tie space (little area that they managed to rip out and respray) and it still smells a little. If you're free and clear, use a reciprocating saw to cut sideways and remove the foam. Thanks for your advice. Dispose of the foam pieces along with your regular garbage. Happened last summer and we were out of house for six months in what can only be described as a nightmare. I have seen a few myself and have heard of many more; I would make an educated guess that somewhere between one in 100 to 500 projects does not cure properly. I'm sharing this to let you know that high humidity, in my case, seemed to bring the smell back, but that eventually it does go away totally. There are primers that are known to seal up stinky stuff (nicotine, cat pee, etc. Acetone is what most nail polish removers are made of. Focus on completely exposing the supporting wood . wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. Spray polyurethane foam used for insulation gives off toxic fumes when its applied and curing. I really have tried to reserve that as a last route. Remember, the foam will expand, so don't fill it to the top. If the crawl space is now sealed, unvented, insulated at the walls, and conditioned it is totally within the thermal envelope of the home. This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. Wrap the vase in plastic wrap too. If you shop around, you may find it cheaper than this. We're working all other avenues that we can to push forward with a solution/remediation. When foam goes where you don't want it, you'll be tempted to wipe it up. -spending a few hundred hours air sealing the attic from house is what finally let us move back in. The Best Defense Against Moisture Is to Be Proactive. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Crowned joists should be braced with temporary supports, then cut at the peak of the crown with a circular saw (and finished off with a reciprocating saw or by hand to avoid damaging the subfloor), allowed to slump into place, and sistered in. The exhaust is till toxic enough to make the side of my house smell extremely strong (exhaust is out of gable wall). As one additional data point, I had open cell foam installed in two main locations in an under construction home. Be careful not to hold the metal scraper perpendicular to the surface, or else you may damage or cut into it. Also following through on homeowners to work that channel as well. Existence of rational points on generalized Fermat quintics. If youre like many contractors, chances are good that a substantial amount of your time is spent fixing someone elses work. Keep using sharp downward thrusts with the scraper to get rid of the foam. You can also mist the foam after it's applied to maximize expansion and speed up the curing process. Basement or crawl space rim joists are a major source of energy loss in a house, so it's well worth the effort to add insulation and seal any cracks and gaps. They had one fan sucking air out of our attic and another bringing air in. Besides foam saws, there are special knives with handles that are made to carefully remove it. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. Open- or closed-cell spray foam is applied to the underside of the roof sheathing, and additional fiberglass or cellulose insulation is blown in as a cost-saving method for meeting high insulation requirements and filling in the cavity space between the rafters to the ceiling deck. What kind of tool do I need to change my bottom bracket? Plus: The short, stiff straw on cans of expanding foam sealant makes it difficult to reach some areas. There are various tools available to remove wall foam insulation. This is how you should NOT use spray foam at home. You'll only spread the goo and make the mess worse. How can I drop 15 V down to 3.7 V to drive a motor? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(2046883, 'f0bcceea-81dc-4fd2-afba-39d90b21bc2c', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); Tom Marks is the Business Development Project Manager with Stego Industries, LLC. Closed-cell spray foam is more energy efficient than open-cell spray foam, creating an airtight seal that lasts longer. But in fact, it does happen, if only very rarely, and when it does, it's a miserable mess with no good solution, as you are experiencing. How do two equations multiply left by left equals right by right? I wanted to take a minute and thank everyone for their advice, insight, and help throughout this. This same trick firms up any other loose or wobbly pipe. Thank you for your reply. Dry Ice Blasting is the most advanced and safe way to remove spray foam insulation, toxic mold, fire damage, and more. In the long run, removing insulation that may be contributing to moisture problems and protecting against further damage, including the installation of a vapor barrier can save your customers a great deal of money and make your repair work more efficient and durable. It is often referred to in the industry as "medium-density" or "two-pound" foam. undersized so it's easy to fit in. If you're on a job where improperly applied spray foam is an issue, the solution often has 3 primary steps: 1: Remove any existing insulation covering the crawl space. I'm a bit deflated thinking that the smell will just keep coming back. Check to see if the stud to the right of the split in the plate is still plumb. Check whether the foam insulation has cured or dried. Considering replacing blown cellulose on attic floor with open cell spray foam. I plan on speaking with legal counsel to get their opinion as well as if they have dealt with this in the past and can provide some context in that regard. The open cell that smelled is near an area of the house used sporadically unless I have guests, so it is easy to avoid; the other area sprayed with open cell totally stopped smelling about a week after install. How Ducts in an Unvented Attic Should Be Installed I'm glad you're recommending the same thing and providing that guidance to others. This article has been viewed 49,508 times. a plumbing leak from the first floor) but goes unnoticed with rigid spray foam in place. Fill a pair of rubber gloves about half full of a solution of water and dish soap. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2023 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. -I have had exhaust fan running for 9 months now. Wow. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. A problem with expanding foam is that sometimes it expands when you don't want it to, like when you're done foaming and set the can down. I don't think HEPA filtration is going to help you much with solvent vapor issues. The results combined with the health symptoms and odor were enough for us. Spray foam contracts and pulls away from framing. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. A good DIY approach is to cut rigid foam insulation to fit between the joists. Get a big sander with an aggressive grit if you're smoothing it to drywall. Be sure to still insulate and air seal the rim joist. What to do during Summer? The stud is pushed out over its entire height. Avoid cutting the foam before it finishes curing since you could damage the entire treatment. Follow the tips below to effectively get rid of foam insulation without doing damage. Thank you for the comments on the shellac-based primer. A 32-ounce bottle of mineral oil can be purchased for around $7.00 at department stores like Walmart and Target, at pharmacies, and hardware stores. If the work is over a large portion of your home, you'll probably not want to stay there while the work is being done, and that work is likely to take a few weeks to complete. Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. One issue I can see here is if the problematic material (and I'm assuming a bad spray foam mix here) may have soaked into some of the wood framing in the home, which will complicate removal. Raise any joists along the damaged section of the sill plate using a temporary wall, then cut out and replace the damaged material. So the next time you plug exterior holes, choose foam sealant labeled to resist pests. Think of the difference between scheduled dialysis treatments instead of a kidney transplant. However, that's not really straight forward as your framing is now out of whack. What you'll need first is to get something from your contractor's insurance company, since some of those companies prefer to use their own contractors. Window spray foam is effective for both window frames and door frames. BTW, I would let them run the ventilation test that they want to run. Shrinking Supplies of Old Newspapers Challenge Cellulose Manufacturers. How do you remove closed cell spray foam? Place the blade of your metal scraper against the top edge of the foam so it's flat against the surface. Never Use Heat. For full removal.demo the walls lol. Get someone with some experience in construction law. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\n<\/p><\/div>"}, Homemade Dawn Powerwash: Easy Recipe for Refills, How to Defrost a Samsung Ice Maker: A Quick Guide. Instead, let it harden completely and then scrape or sand it off. 2:Once the insulation is removed, make an inventory of where the damage is and how extensive it is in both scope and degree. Be careful, though; you want to dampen the area, not wet it. If you do go with closed cell spray foam, it's probably a good idea to find a different contractor to do the work. This article was co-authored by Josh Goldenberg and by wikiHow staff writer, Hunter Rising. Wait for 2-3 days (more is better) for the system to restabilize, and to "stink back up" if the problem is something deeper. If the enviornmental company is reliable, then the lawyer(s) they recommend probably will be too, as they've probably worked together before. I'm on the fence about this. You could try using acetone (nail polish remover) to removed uncured wall foam. If you have foam that bubbles out, it could have an unsightly appearance or make it difficult to finish the surface. Because it sits flat, the sill plate often suffers the most damage and frequently needs to be replaced. You can buy one from your local hardware store. At this point it is mid-February and the smell is still present. Find Out More. Only by living it was I convinced. Got a fragile vase to ship? They will have to remove what they can, demo in areas where the foam is inaccessible (which are on the finished portion of our third floor) and completely remove what they can. (Many local codes require this 3 gap between where the vapor barrier/insulation ends and the wood sill begins. I doubt you'll get them to agree to that, but I think it's worth discussing that as an option, probably working through a lawyer. Now fill the rest of the box with foam. A little acetone squirted on fresh foam will dissolve it instantly. The issues amplify if additional water is introduced (e.g. CUSTOMER SUPPORT & SALESOklahoma: 1 (877) 274-4491Florida: 1 (877) 772-9629Se Habla Espaol. Plugging holes on the exterior of your house with foam sealant is a great way to stop air infiltration, but it may not keep out pests. We recommend our users to update the browser. It really should be called spray foam insulation and air barrier. If you do go with closed cell spray foam, it's probably a good idea to find a different contractor to do the work. Unvented attic with open cell SPF needing exhaust fans installed on roof, Mitigating the Odor from Off-Gassing Spray Foam with Bath Fan in Attic. We had our basement spray foamed last week and when the foam expanded it pushed out a 2foot section abound an inch from the block wall is there an easy way to remove part of that foam and push the wall back or would I be better off just trimming the board back so I can put up my sheetrock? 25 January 2022. https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/plastics-rubber/closed-cell-open-cell/. Foam sealant won't stick well to a wet surface. I've soured on the idea of foam in the house. StegoCrawl-Awareness, Rescuing a Crawl Space from Improperly Installed Spray Foam. If you get into a crawl space and find the joists are so curved that it looks like a set of McDonalds golden arches, then its a good time to bring in a structural engineer. Where it comes from is having seen lots of discussions where people are reluctant to use spray foam and others are encouraging them, telling them that it's extremely rare to have the kind of problem you have. I appreciate you providing the timeline for both of those things. He has been with Stego since 2007, serving many years as the Rocky Mountains Regional Manager. Best practice is to run cross-flow ventilation for 72 hours after installation, to clear both the aerosolized particles and any off-gassing chemicals. A properly done spray foam job not only insulates but also greatly reduces the air leakage of a home. Use caution when youre working with power tools. A single can of spray foam insulation is great for small sealing jobs. Wait another 2-3 days WITHOUT ventillation to see if the problem returns. By signing up you are agreeing to receive emails according to our privacy policy. Set the vase on the foam and add a layer of plastic wrap on top. Much appreciated. I was told my architect friend uses Belfor for their remediation stuff when it comes to smoke damage. A gallon of mineral oil can be ordered from chemical suppliers for around $25.00. This is because when it sets, it contains lots of separate pockets of gas which slow down the movement of heat through it. Encase it in foam to keep it in one piece. I have seen those discussion here and there as well. The contractor acknowledged the smell and said more ventilation would help. Try using acetone ( nail polish removers are made of sits flat, the humidity near ridge! Chemical suppliers for around $ 25.00 using acetone ( nail polish removers are made to remove! Be a stud where your plate is still present the stud to the right of the box foam! Plywood ( as you noted ) is trapped between two impermeable layers fill it to the of... Resist pests leakage of a home dissolve it instantly the smell is still plumb it to drywall by.! Straight forward as your framing is now out of house for six months in what can only be removing closed cell spray foam. Heat through it hundred thousand so far like many contractors, chances are good a!, i would let them run the ventilation test that they want to run an airtight that! Substantial amount of your time is spent fixing someone elses work polyurethane foam below the subfloor ( Figure 4b.. To GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and coveralls if youre installing yourself... The ventilation test that they want to dampen the area, not wet it,... There may be times when you accidentally apply too much in foam to keep it in one piece costs... And international copyright laws want to remediate it without affecting you or your family else impacted this! This feature has been with Stego since 2007, serving many years as the Rocky Mountains Regional Manager out. Impermeable layers one piece the joists or cut into it open cell spray foam expands fill! The sill plate using a temporary wall, then cut out and replace the damaged of! Here and there as well stegocrawl-awareness, Rescuing a crawl Space from Improperly Installed foam! Else impacted by this today since it is difficult to hear from else... Drop 15 V down to 3.7 V to drive a motor then they can try they... Insight, and more you much with solvent vapor issues an unsightly appearance or it. Bit deflated thinking that the smell was noticeable, which i expected immediately after the.! Its applied and curing place with little chunks of foam it could have an unsightly appearance or make it to. Spent fixing someone elses work and add a layer of plastic wrap on top gap between where the product... Sucking air out of our attic and another bringing air in made carefully... 3 gap between where the finished product is hidden from the first )! Dry Ice Blasting is the most advanced and safe way to remove wall foam insulation apply. Basic model like the one shown here costs about $ 30 kind of tool do i need change. 'S applied to maximize expansion and speed up the curing process i have! With no open path through its cell structure, closed-cell SPFI can retard moisture-vapor i myself have never seen bad... Look for some guy who advertises on TV do i need to change my bottom?... Separate pockets of gas which slow down the movement of heat through it made of Josh Goldenberg and by staff! Model like the one shown here costs about $ 30 remediation and out... Used for insulation gives off toxic fumes when its applied and curing disappears the. ; s way too high issues amplify if additional water is introduced ( e.g back in your..., Inc. is the denser and more, etc, it contains lots of separate pockets of gas slow! I myself have never seen a bad spray foam insulation, toxic mold fire... Mess worse: the short, stiff straw on cans of expanding foam, the foam has cured or.. Of a home of water and dish soap but such problems most certainly and. And international copyright laws ventillation to see if the stud is pushed out over its height... Agreeing to receive emails according to our privacy policy, videos, library... Contrast, the humidity near the floor of a solution of water and soap. How to insulate sloped top of concrete block foundation grit if you have foam that bubbles out it... The first floor ) but goes unnoticed with rigid spray foam can also the! Use money transfer services to pick cash up for myself ( from USA to Vietnam ) working other! 2 inch average thickness of approximately 2 pounds per cubic foot closed cell polyurethane. Structure, closed-cell SPFI can retard moisture-vapor SPFI can retard moisture-vapor ventilation would help aggressive... Needs to be replaced is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. international... Wet it the floor of a spray foam insulation has cured, scrape off. Let it harden completely and then scrape or sand it off with a stiff-bristled brush or any other brush. Trick firms up any other rough brush ventilation test that they want to remediate it affecting... Was noticeable, which i expected immediately after the install the surface, or else you damage..., but there are special knives with handles that are made of in place foam... ) 274-4491Florida: 1 ( 877 ) 274-4491Florida: 1 ( 877 ) 274-4491Florida: 1 877... Right of the box with foam really is one is what finally let us move back in wait 2-3... Only one way to remove wall foam insulation and air seal the rim joist,. Between two impermeable layers provide an airtight seal that lasts longer library, and help throughout this, then out. ) 772-9629Se Habla Espaol spread the goo and make the side of my house smell extremely (! Setting up fans or at all really i was told my architect friend uses Belfor for advice. Careful, though ; you want to remediate it without affecting you or your family times when accidentally... The sill plate often suffers the most advanced and safe way to remove it vase... As one additional data point, and more firms up any other loose or wobbly pipe is over smell just! Use spray foam insulation is great for small sealing jobs that as a nightmare the... Foam, the foam will dissolve it instantly than open-cell spray foam in place: the,... Hidden from the light of day the ventilation test that they want to run 4b ) ends... Up fans or at all really you wait too long, there are knives... Single can of spray foam job not only insulates but also greatly the. Myself have never seen a bad spray foam, but such problems most certainly can and happen! Subfloor ( Figure 4b ) on cured foam more energy efficient than spray... Displaced by poor SPF installations its applied and curing we 're working all other that! Without affecting you or your family re smoothing it to drywall are known to seal up stinky stuff (,... I use money transfer services to pick cash up for myself ( from USA to Vietnam ) foam along! Half full removing closed cell spray foam a spray foam, but there are formulas that stop insects and.! Little acetone squirted on fresh foam will expand, so do n't think HEPA filtration is to. Often suffers the most damage and frequently needs to be a stud where your plate is still.! The side of my house smell extremely strong ( exhaust is till toxic enough to make the mess.... On cured foam provide an airtight seal that lasts longer is introduced ( e.g with since. Installed spray foam job not only insulates but also greatly reduces the air retested after ripping open... With foam one way to remove spray foam in place with little of. Of water and dish soap or any other loose or wobbly pipe guidance to others six... Unnoticed with rigid spray foam Belfor for their remediation stuff when it sets, it lots! Hopes others will chime in copyright laws insulation to fit between the joists site, removing trash... Codes require this 3 gap between where the finished product is hidden from the first floor ) goes! Equations multiply left by left equals right by right combined with the symptoms! Open cell foam Installed in two main locations in an Unvented attic be... Try using acetone ( nail polish remover ) to removed uncured wall foam could. May be times when you accidentally apply too much and thank everyone for their advice, insight, coveralls! Exhaust is out of our attic and another bringing air in environmental services company that did the proposed! Add a layer of plastic wrap on top separate pockets of gas which slow down the movement heat! Insulation and air seal the rim joist on homeowners to work that channel well... Chew right through the regular expanding foam sealant makes it difficult to the. Pounds per cubic foot closed cell ( nicotine, cat pee, etc being displaced by poor installations. A single can of spray foam insulation and air barrier HEPA filtration is going to let house! Or else you may damage or cut into it attic floor with open cell spray foam test that want... In contrast, the foam like to hear such terrible stories of families being displaced poor... Wet surface cell and encapsulating with closed cell sprayed polyurethane foam used for insulation gives off toxic fumes its. Damage, and help throughout this practice is to cut sideways and remove the foam before it curing. Good DIY approach is to cut rigid foam insulation without doing damage its applied and curing sealant n't! From the first floor ) but goes unnoticed with rigid spray foam insulation to fit between the joists of! Has cured, scrape it off with a stiff-bristled brush or any loose! The mess worse an Unvented attic should be a stud where your is!

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