Either will work, just make sure

2022.07.31
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Either will work, just make sure

Either will work, just make sure that any one you choose has a magnet on at least one side to hold it to the pipe. Congrats on taking all the thinking out of my job. Answer: If you are asking what the angles are, they can be anything that adds up to 180 degrees. I actually do enjoy sharing my knowledge and work tips with others. I always wondered how some of those pipes were bent in such a precise way. Lots of math is built into the hand bender device. My solution was to memorize the decimal to fraction equivalents for each 1/8 of an inch. Answer: The only way to do it is with "concentric bends" where the bends are equal, not concentric. Please verify if my calculations are off or if I am missing something, I never took trig but my calculator did and I can recreate your results on paper with it but the multipliers don't seem to be working.. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on March 06, 2012: ?? One of the remaining angles of the triangle is always 90 degrees, while the third angle always depends on the first, being 90 degrees minus angle d. The sides of the triangle are labeled A, B and C; these letters represent the length of each side. I applied this to bending rigid ocal, and it got me pretty darn close. The A and C bends must be made with the bender reversed. This kind of math is where those multipliers come from! A long pause followed. The center of the bend should be very close to the center of the pipe. What is the shrink per inch of rise for 10 and 60 degree bends ? Sorry I left out a few words, may be confusing so.. After I bent the first at 22, I then tried 10 degrees but it seems the multiplier (6) is too big. I previously tried your multiplier of 6, and was unsuccessful, today I tried 5.75 with a spacing of 28.75. I been in the trade 24yrs and have needed a tool like this hundreds of times. GREAT WRITE UP!!! Do you refer to the "deduct" when making a 90? Terms of Use Even if you only bend conduit a couple times a year for work or home, this app is a MUST. Question: I have a 10' piece of 3/4" aluminum electrical conduit. I am going to keep trying to use these formulas and keep my calculator in my truck. I'm grateful to you and your work, from here in Canada. Hope the information has been of some help to you. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on November 19, 2012: @Mike: yes the multiplier of a 30 degree offset is 2, that's what is in the chart above. Question: how do i figure out the development for a 15 degree saddle bend if the center line radius is 25"? Note that making concentric bends requires using some additional math not discussed in this article. miter You're right - this might help students realize how important it is to learn and understand math - it really does have uses in everyday life. Check you your state and local laws on what it requires to be come an electrician. While this is not usually important in smaller conduit, it most definitely comes into play in the bigger stuff. Love this app and have been using this for several years. Good simple calculations. Again, it will not be exact, but might be close enough for practical application in the field. JD Curtin from Brighton, Colorado on December 02, 2015: Wow this is great! Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on May 18, 2020: Sorry, there is no link to provide a hard copy. You learn something new everyday! He finally decided to weather the awful process of my 'math' usage, and sunnuva'gun if he didn't ask me later if I would go over some of the fine points with him , etc. But i still find myself coming back. I resulted with a 6.5" offset. tecnostamp None of the multipliers used in offsets are conduit material dependent, nor do they depend on the size of the conduit. Please sir, could you do me a favour by giving a link where I can print and have your lessons in a hard copy. Note that this can also be written as C = A * (1 / sine(22)). The math and formulas that make up a simple conduit-bending guide are actually quite simple and easily learned. Shoot us an email and we will get right back to you! If you can read a ruler and have this app you are now a conduit master. Question: How do I figure out how to match 90 degree bends with different size pipe? Thanks for this easy to understand site. Bending 3" or 4" conduit into odd angles by trial and error gets very expensive very quickly. This leaves the pipe horizontal, with the end being bent upward. What are B and C? Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on August 21, 2010: Thanks for the comment and compliment. I think these benders should be made with more precision, like I said the thing that holds the pipe to the shoe and the shoe has too much play and ends up bending the pipe where u had not anticipated. Nevertheless, learning how to bend conduit to very nearly any angle you want is not difficult. Assume that we need a 2" offset in 3 1/2" conduit. From my understanding I'm going to learn about electrician tools, wiring, how to wire up motors, PLC n controls, power distribution, electric codes, blueprints schematics, electronic component circuits, a little construction, and how to bend conduit. My undergraduate degree is in applied mathematics and I often make the mistake of assuming that my new hires are equally versed in trigonometry. I only bent conduit by eye and a tape measure.Could you give me some advice. It sounds like you're doing fine. I want to be an electrician. So, 60\17 = 3.5. Answer: Minimums are a function of the bender being used and cannot be reduced. To covert this to inches, we multiply by 16, which gives us 9.122, so we now know .5695 is real close to 9/16". Thanks a lot for the speedy response and lengthy information! How do i figure out the bends and degrees for an existing conduit to match without removing the emt or rigid? The "hook" that the pipe fits through sometimes doesn't want to come all the way back to the shoe, the bottom shoe may not be fully back, etc. Point me to how we deturmine the deduct for a bend. @wilderness, the angle is 22.5 is because it is 1/4th of a 90. I also wanted to add, as a general rule, I find that,if you need to make an uncommonon degree offset (such as 17), your multiplier is how many times the degrees goes into 60.

Most conduit bends, in addition to a simple 90-degree bend, can be understood and calculated using the geometry of a right triangle. In contrast, a few months ago my partner 'cautioned' me that he definitely wasn't going to have anything to to with the cable tray offset we were about to build if I was going to use any "math" along the way. Shrinkage can be calculated as C - B, with B = cosine d * C. But that is all figured with the 90 already bent. How can i know the different take off of degree of pipe using tangent. Your calculator will give you the sine, cosine, and tangent of any angle. Thanks a million. A history buff might use it, though - thanks for the tip. I'm not sure what you refer to - the deduct numbers are different for each size of conduit. This is a lot easier to understand if you draw your pipes first so you can visualize how your marks will be moving on each subsequent pipe. I'm sure the problem is in the bending process - the wrong angle (are you using the bender on it's side and measuring with the rod that comes out to indicate bend? The only tools you need for more complex bends are an angle finder and a cheap scientific-type hand calculator or, in today's world, a smartphone with a calculator. As an exercise, consider an offset of 12" using two 22 bends. The length of side A is the tangent of angle (d) times the length of side B. The pipe above is bent into an offset. It's available. If you don't, there are some examples at the end of this article. I have done a lot of large EMT (seldom rigid) and that's what prompted this article. What you're referring to is called a parallel offset. Or, if the radius is considered at the center, adding that 1.25 will result in a measurement to the outside. This gives us 2.125". Referring to the diagrams in the article, the length of C will be the length of A divided by the sine of angle D. Measurements will be taken from the back of the 90. Keep in mind that those are INTERIOR angles. So glad I found this hub. I kid. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on April 30, 2012: @ Brian: If you got a 6.5" offset with marks 28.75" apart you have a 13 degree bend. This is also covered in the article https://dengarden.com/home-improvement/a-conduit-b Mark center line "A" after adding shrinkage- first bend. You'd make a mark on your first pipe of where the off set starts. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on October 14, 2012: LOL There are probably about as many memory aids as there are people. I want to study more so as to know more. Bending offsets and such requires use of decimals to make the calculations (or at least it's much easier that way), but to then use the result on a tape measure requires the use of fractions. Up to six family members can use this app with FamilySharing enabled. I use the bender standing upright it has the stand and the little plate thing it slides along as its being bent. I'd eye off the 90 right, but I need a banger at starting height. Within an 1/8th of an inch is almost always good enough; if you need to be closer than that you'll probably have to tweak it some anyway. I enjoyed your article, particularly the comments. I would have more trouble remembering Sohcahtoa than I would the formulas! Depending on the state you live in, you may be required to go to school to learn much of this, as well as working as an apprentice learning the trade. I always start with the basic bends first. It helps so much to know where things need to go. One is considerably cheaper, but the other more accurate and easier to use. (3/4 conduit). Interesting that you use 60 divided by the angel, and it does work fairly well. I have tried using these calculations to recreate the results I had at work today.

I don't have a ton of experience with this under my belt, so feeding off of your hub has been very nourishing. Why not just use the star on the bender rather than the arrow? The shrinkage if a 3 point saddle is given in the section on examples. ), marks a little off (although 10" off would be horrible! A protractor is then used to measure the bend being produced; I overbend about 2 degrees, relax the pressure and re-check. Recommended for Android phones is the RealCalc scientific calculator app, available from the Google Play store at no charge. it's not a bender, however; if you prefer the multiplier method with no radius. 160 (they also reference the wrong page which brings you to hand signals, ha,ha). The formulas are listed below, with algebraic equivalents in each case. Many protractors are very difficult to read exactly what you want, and 1 or 2 degrees off is very common. shrink = hypotenuse(offset bend marks) - cos of angle X hypotenuse. That's a little far apart for our bends, so let's try again using a 5 bend. Side C = 4 / sine(22.4), or 10.45". Quickly calculate conduit bends for a variety of angles and depths. I'll recommend this to any electrician on site who is seeking to either learn, or just improving on their skill and efficiency. Wiring homes, for instances have little to no conduit bending. In particular, you will have to know how to get inverse functions on your calculator; these functions convert a sine, cosine, or tangent figure into an angle, into the degrees of bend you need. Its helped me progress in my career making me more valuable and succesfull in my life. And if the order of bend is A,B,C the bender should be reversed after the first bend - normally I will bend B,A,C and reverse the bender after the A bend. When working with large rigid conduit a wrong bend is not a easy fix, and also expensive. Two inches divided by .0349 = 57". Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on April 13, 2015: LOL - that's the way it goes, John. This is great and wow Love it so much very educating. I've never had to build odd offsets into a cable tray, but have done plenty of big pipe and have more than a few come back later and ask if I could teach them how to avoid costly mistakes. The figures will not be exact because of the difference in pipe thickness but will be quite close. Now we multiply this 2.125" by the tangent of half the offset angle, which happens to be 30 degrees, so half will be 15 degrees. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on May 01, 2012: That's my guess, as I said - you simply overbent it just a little.

This app allows an electrician or apprentice to select values for offsets and saddles and be presented with the figures to assist in making a professional installation. Somehow I missed this comment but you filled in nicely. Shrinkage of an offset is the difference between "b" and "c" in the first diagram. Dan has been a licensed journey-level electrician for 17 years. You would have to check in practice, but I suspect that the NEC figure is to the inside of the bend, meaning that the loss will be 3/4" less than what is calculated: the length of the completed bend will be 3/4" more than the minimum radius. The best you could realistically do is figure where the 90 should be bent as if there would be no kick, then add the shrinkage value to that number. The sine of 22 = .3846, and 1 / .3846 = 2.6, which is the familiar multiplier for a 22 offset. Easily select between different types of benders and choose the size of the shoe and conduit type that you're using. The "loss" is then 7-4.5, or 2.5". Difficult to describe, but easily mastered with the largest problem being just how to measure the needed offset. The difference between B and C is our shrinkage; the center of our three-point saddle will move just under 1". Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on November 15, 2016: Thank you, Jeffery.

Pay for the premium version. Im a 3rd yr electrician and this web site has been my go to for bending my whole apprenticeship. There will be some "shrinkage", which can be found by the math formula of Shrink=4.25-4.25*cos(22) = .31" in your case. It is a pleasure to share what I have learned over the years, and I'm always glad when someone finds it useful. Very few beginning electricians are taught anything beyond the most basic instructions for bending electrical conduit pipe (EMT, electrical metallic tubing). Finally, it is very easy to over or under bend pipe at ten degrees. I figured a 5 1/8" to drop with 22 bends 2 1/8" if that is right, didn't write it down when doing it but I'm not sure what to add to account for the loss in the bend. Or simply tape the formulas to the back of your calculator; believe it or not I grew up before there were calculators and I had to memorize. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on December 31, 2010: The rolling offset is indeed one of the more useful bends and can save additional bends when done properly. This is our first mark for the 3/4" pipe. I have been taught this in class and doubted I would ever have to approach conduit bending with trigonometry but after having some difficulty bending large conduit today here I am! but i know i wouldn't use them in the feild. Measure the conduit and make the same bends. Many local terms are just that - local, and aren't used country wide. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on September 10, 2014: Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on February 25, 2014: That would depend on the desired angle of rise and what angle the center bend is to be bent at. I'm guessing I over bent the pipe when I was actually trying to compensate for the "spring effect" when being released. Making concentric bends easier. I am a EC in Cook and DuPage Counties in Illinois. Stuff. Some of the math is already built into a common hand bender device, and the rest of it involves the geometry of a triangle. Sorry about this. It works wonders! We know that A = 4" and angle d = 22.5. I'm glad I found your blog!! Thank you :o). You're right in that 22 degree is about 2.4, but the mark on a hand bender is for a 22.5 degree (for some unknown reason), which makes the multiplier 2.6. your multiplier of 6 is wrong if you are using a 30 degree angle your mutiplier is 2. Im a 20+ year electrician.

Perfect for quick referencing offsets and saddle's. I love it. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on February 02, 2015: Well, it made sense to me, too. Well, it's my first non-90 bend, and I'll be "winging it" in a second here. So, we have 2.125" x tan(15), or 2.125" x .268, which gives us .5695. Side B = 4" / tan(22.5) or 9.65". Thanks for the comment - it's nice to know I was able to be of assistance. Question: What is the Formula for 2 45 = 90? and all of these things must be checked carefully. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on December 14, 2013: Not bad, although a few of additions need to be made. This article is accurate and true to the best of the authors knowledge. When bending a 3 bend saddle , my mark A is 30 inches and im crossing a 3 inch object then what are my measurements for mark B and C. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on February 23, 2014: 10 degrees rise per inch = .08". Content is for informational or entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for personal counsel or professional advice in business, financial, legal, or technical matters. for a memory aid: Chief Sohcahtoa S= O/H C=A/H T=O/A, probably works for me since I'm Cherokee ;-). Or 1/2 of a 45 (which in turn is half a 90), take your choice. Are you referring to an example in Ugly's? The cosine of angle (d) is the length of side B divided by the length of side C. The length of side B is the cosine of angle (d) multiplied by the length of side C. The length of side C is the length of side B divided by the cosine of angle (d). When the calculated result doesn't match one of the memorized eighth inch numbers (and it very seldom does) I simply choose the nearest one. Question: What the exact measurements of triangle bent of conduit pipes? Most everything has been converted to memory. I can't remember for 3" pipe, but often a different shoe works very well to set under the end of the conduit to level it. Answer: There is no real formula, but it can be calculated with a fair degree of precision. Asher Socrates from Los Angeles, CA on February 21, 2016: This is a very detailed and superb write up! Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on October 14, 2010: You are more than welcome. Each set of formulassine, cosine, and tangentare just the same formula expressed three different ways. I, too, use a Greenlee bender for larger pipe and it is always a hassle. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on July 15, 2018: Not sure I understand the question. I'm curious as to why you would add 1.25" to determine the minimum radius of a 2" conduit (as used in ugly's multi-shot:90 degree bending example. Great! Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on October 03, 2011: I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term - it isn't used in my area.

Then mark line "C" using same measurement as line "B" above but mark on opposite side of center Line "A". Simply search the store for RealCalc and download it. I once made a 180-degree bend that was nearly 100 yards across. I hope the comments on the bender make sense; every job I've been on bending large pipe has been with a greenlee bender, but they have likely made improvements over the old models I've used. I then tried 5.75 spaced 28.75 apart and came out with a 6.5" offset. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on September 15, 2014: That depends on what you are doing. And yes, math and its associated items (reading a tape measure perhaps) is very important and for someone that has no training in math at all even simple addition or subtraction of fractional figures can be difficult. This means that 1.25 inches is pretty close to half the OD of a 2" pipe; they are probably measuring the minimum radius at the center of the pipe rather than choosing either the inside or outside of it. I understand that in class that might not be close enough, and you could go the extra distance and memorize each 1/16" as well, but it won't usually match exactly, either. Question: Is there a formula for concentric conduit bending? It's always appreciated. The tangent of angle (d) is side A divided by the length of side B. The developer, Bret Hardman, has not provided details about its privacy practices and handling of data to Apple. Most electricians forget about or ignore this shrinkage on three-point saddles, and as a result, the center of their bend is not centered over the obstruction they are crossing. The math formulas we will be using are sine, cosine, and tangent. HubPages is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. In the final analysis it will always be necessary to round off and simply choose the nearest fractional equivalent to the calculated decimal figure. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on October 05, 2010: Indeed it is, although few electricians realize it or use it. A final note: This article is but one of several written by an electrician, for electricians. I tried 22 degrees as close together as possible, it was over 9 inches. The geometry of a triangle provides formulas useful for many conduit bends. Divide once more by two, measure from the center of the pipe that far then set that mark at the front edge of the bending shoe. It is very important to get the two marks at exactly the same place on the bender, and it isn't always easy with big pipe. deduct 6 inches for a 90. Memorizing these simple formulas can make the bending of large conduit much easier. This isn't hard to do with large benders. You guys hit a home run with this app! Thanks again.

- Joslin ( Detroit ). There is a use for it!!! I am so pleased and happy when I came across this site with or sincerity, I was glad. One I use all the time is the "rolling offset.". 60 degree rise per inch = .57". That's not the time to be making guesses and experimenting. What is the length loss of a 90 bend? This app works great and is very accurate. All wiring must be in metallic raceways, so bending conduit is one of the first things every apprentice learns. Better than a couple of the paid apps for quick calculations. I need to know how to figure it out. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on June 05, 2012: Thanks, cablemanagements. These are just the relationships between the sides of a right triangle; they depend on the angle (d) of the triangle. My green helper can now bend pipe better then the old timers and I love it! Got everyone at work to download it. Even the multiplier and deduct figures are usually stamped onto the bender device. Who needs memory when you have Dan Harmon at dengarden lol. Any electrician bending large conduit should already have an angle finder as without a hand bender to tell the angle being bent an angle finder is necessary. This is a great app for beginners and for quick figures. Started out wiring house's, then on to schools, hospitals, grocery stores and now work as a lineman at a utility company in substations.

Using these formulas will enable the electrician to bend very nearly any angle he or she wants to. They keep saying it so close with my answers. I often use the trig functions to design pipe work & am pretty lost otherwise . It is critical that the pipe be really horizontal, at 0 degrees; check with a level. Yes, the very word ("math") scares a lot of people off, but it really isn't hard. Thank you. Dan Harmon (author) from Boise, Idaho on January 30, 2015: Thank you, Steven. ) Current Tools: 750/751 Current Tools: 77 Current Tools: 747 Gardner Bender: Big Ben Gardner Bender: Sidewinder Gardner Bender: Electric Sidewinder Gardner Bender: B2000 Cyclone Gardner Bender: Ultra Eegor Gardner Bender: B300 Series Greenlee: Hand Benders Greenlee: 1800/1801 Greenlee: 1818 Greenlee: 555Greenlee: 854DX Greenlee: 855GX Greenlee: 881 Greenlee: 884/885 Ideal: Hand Benders Klein: Hand BendersQuickBend Multiple Bends Layout multiple bends on a single stick of conduit. Offset to ObstructionOffset from ObstructionThree Point Saddle Four Point Saddle 90 Bend, Kick Kick with 90 Place a cut mark for those rare occasions that you need to cut and thread the conduit before bending. Flip bends around. Graphic representation of where the bend/cut will layout on a stick of conduit. Bend layouts are based on your benders centerline radius, deduct, and gain. Toggle 'Measure to Centers' to help line up conduits when working on raceways with multiple conduit sizes.QuickBend includes a protractor level which is easily accessible and can be Zeroed by a simple tap.QuickBend allows you to pick between either form of measurements, imperial (inches) or metric (cm).QuickBend's QuickCheck indicates if bends are impossible by a subtle change of turning the measurements and text red.QuickBend's center-line radius algorithm is especially useful when bending conduit that is larger than 1 inch and bends that exceed 30 degrees.If you'd like to make any suggestions or just want to say 'hi' please e-mail me at rigidpro@outlook.com, Parallel Kick Multiple Parallel Kicks Matching Bends Offset Matching Bend Kick Performance Improvements Improved GUI Milwaukee Hand Benders Greenlee 882 Hand Benders can now select rigid conduit Bug Fixes.